Rollbacked transfers

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  • #1 2020-04-09 20:42

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    Another nice case of banking 🤷‍♂️

    first you’ve got to see if the seller buy it back to be banking I guess.

    Anyway, we’re the rules changing ? Because admins said they were going to review it but it’s taking time, maybe for the new season ?

  • #2 2020-04-09 20:54

    The seller bought him yesterday and put him right back on TL with a 1 day deadline 🙄

  • #3 2020-04-09 23:21

    What exactly is the problem with banking? Anyone can overbet the banking guy, anyone can later overbet the target buyer. So where is the problem?
    Find something better to waste your time with

  • #4 2020-04-09 23:37

    Kail wrote:

    What exactly is the problem with banking? Anyone can overbet the banking guy, anyone can later overbet the target buyer. So where is the problem?
    Find something better to waste your time with

    Normally these transfers are way over their value, most of the times tbh.
    Banking is shit and is contradicting with some other transfer rules. But I understand your are in a community that takes it to the next level so you are happy with it probably waiting your turn if you didn’t have it yet.

  • #5 2020-04-09 23:47

    Zack wrote:

    Normally these transfers are way over their value, most of the times tbh.


    you assume it's over value or you have data you can provide?
    the player posted by mrcarlsen was within realistic transfer value as result of a massive bidfight during the 1st sale. even in the current/2nd sale there is no bid worth reporting for a rollback so far.

    Zack wrote:

    Banking is shit and is contradicting with some other transfer rules.


    for you it might be. within current rules banking it is allowed and still no reason for a rollback.

  • #6 2020-04-10 05:47

    Here he is 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Sportsmanship they say... 😅

  • #7 2020-04-10 09:01

    It baffles me that you think it’s okay to buy a player without any intention to benefit your own clan. Some other guy clearly wanted the player if there were a bid fight and zoif overbid him just so he can sell him to a mate with 1 day deadline (and less than ideal time of day). There’s a lot of reason why the same guy might not bid again so it’s not a valid argument.

    I notice that most people in favor of banking either did it themselves, have mates who do it or are in communities notoriously known for shady transfers.

  • #8 2020-04-10 09:22

    mrcarlsen it happens in all sports. Remember when Juventus bought Ronaldo because Inter didn’t have the money, then resold him the day after? Remember that!? Nothing wrong with that. All fairplay.

  • #9 2020-04-10 10:44

    I think you get confused here @mrcarlsen

    I suppose a majority of people think banking is shit, but have no remorse doing it because it's not forbidden. If some users can use of an advantage, some others think "hey why wouldn't I do it?"

    IMO yes it "should" definitely be forbidden, but it can only be the case if it is properly ruled. And I know you don't agree with that, but I think it is very difficult to properly rule.

    Something that could help is getting a smart tax regime that makes banking cost quite a bit of money in proportion to the transfer in itself. But then again it could impact WWT farmers negatively...not easy

    Last edited by scw- at 2020-04-10 10:50
  • #10 2020-04-10 11:02

    Wouldn't that also be a good thing scw? The way lower WWTs are now is bullshit anyways, with people buying cheap oldies.

  • #11 2020-04-10 11:20

    Thank you for chipping in, scw. I appreciate you sharing your opinion. I think we already established multiple times that banking is not forbidden at the moment and I'm not saying that anyone should be punished for it at the moment. Just because it's allowed at the moment doesn't make it right though.

    I think it's a good idea to take measures to make it harder to bank players so it's less attractive but even without it I can't really see how it's harder to enforce than for example unrealistic bids or match fixing. There are so many cases that are hilariously obvious like osis/ludis and zoif/vega. To be honest it's quite easy to use common sense in these cases and spot banking.

    However here are some of my own ideas on how to make banking harder/less attractive (from the top of my head):
    - Remove 1-2 days deadlines
    - Introduce a transfer quarantine so you can't resell a player for X amount of weeks
    - Like you suggest yourself: tax reselling on sales price instead of profit for X amount of weeks (or something similar)

  • #12 2020-04-10 11:21

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    It baffles me that you think it’s okay to buy a player without any intention to benefit your own clan. Some other guy clearly wanted the player if there were a bid fight and zoif overbid him just so he can sell him to a mate with 1 day deadline (and less than ideal time of day). There’s a lot of reason why the same guy might not bid again so it’s not a valid argument.


    Many bad transfer decisions that are allowed to be made usually don't break the rules. Deciding to fix a mistake like drunk or rushed bid by quick resale is one of the legit actions you can do as user in csm - again without breaking the rules. In this case one could say that vega was just tooking advantage of zoif who is trying to get his cash back. Maybe someone else will overbid vega and get the player.

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    I notice that most people in favor of banking either did it themselves, have mates who do it or are in communities notoriously known for shady transfers.


    Ad hominem isn't a constructive way to make anyone change rules. Banking used to forbidden and the rule to forbid it got removed it. They didn't do it just for fun or to get you mad. Maybe it was a outdated rule after considering how transfers are checked and how well it worked in the past in most cases.
    You had your shot in another thread. Somehow you keep recooking old topics and can't can't get over it or can't accept that's its very difficult to handle a banking rule.

    Last edited by Raid on at 2020-04-10 11:42
  • #13 2020-04-10 11:39

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    Thank you for chipping in, scw. I appreciate you sharing your opinion. I think we already established multiple times that banking is not forbidden at the moment and I'm not saying that anyone should be punished for it at the moment. Just because it's allowed at the moment doesn't make it right though.

    I think it's a good idea to take measures to make it harder to bank players so it's less attractive but even without it I can't really see how it's harder to enforce than for example unrealistic bids or match fixing. There are so many cases that are hilariously obvious like osis/ludis and zoif/vega. To be honest it's quite easy to use common sense in these cases and spot banking.

    However here are some of my own ideas on how to make banking harder/less attractive (from the top of my head):
    - Remove 1-2 days deadlines
    - Introduce a transfer quarantine so you can't resell a player for X amount of weeks
    - Like you suggest yourself: tax reselling on sales price instead of profit for X amount of weeks (or something similar)

    yes to all of that.

    osis and zoif are "hilariously obvious" cases because they take advantage of the situation so yes they consider they don't have anything to hide (and as it stands they are right). there are many more similar cases indeed.

    however there are much trickier cases of banking :
    - less high profile because on cheaper/less good players
    - less high profile because not involving not as much reknowned managers
    - less visible because the second transaction only happens within 12-20 days for instance
    - etc.

    I was more thinking of those cases.

    My other thinking is that sometimes it is difficult to make the difference between banking and change of mind.

    Also for instance the other day i ended up buying an oldie as i bidded to extend deadline for a few minutes : I thought he was a worthy one to buy for a community mate and wanted him to have a chance to bid on him so I gained 5 minutes for him. In the end he wasn't here at that moment, so I got the player and immediately put him back for sale because I didn't have any use for him. A community mate bought him in the end, so from the outside it definitely looks like banking, yet it wasn't.

  • #14 2020-04-10 11:52

    Quote:

    In this case one could say that vega was just tooking advantage of zoif who is trying to get his cash back. Maybe someone else will overbid vega and get the player.

    Do you really believe this is the case even for a second?

    You keep defending this rule rigorously with arguments like "it's currently allowed so we shouldn't change it" or "it's hard to enforce" but I haven't seen you write a single good argument as to why banking is good for the game and why it should be allowed from a moral standpoint.

  • #15 2020-04-10 11:59

    scw- wrote:

    Also for instance the other day i ended up buying an oldie as i bidded to extend deadline for a few minutes : I thought he was a worthy one to buy for a community mate and wanted him to have a chance to bid on him so I gained 5 minutes for him.

    This might not be banking but it's sure as hell is manipulating the transfer-list in a way it's not intended.

    I'm really surprised you think this is acceptable. It's unfair to the guy who wanted the player and was online at deadline. It's called boosting, unsportsmanlike and abusing the transfer system in a way it was not intended. If you want a player you should be online at deadline. Easy as that. You shouldn't rely on friends bid for you to extend deadline or to bank the player.

  • #16 2020-04-10 12:05

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    Quote:

    In this case one could say that vega was just tooking advantage of zoif who is trying to get his cash back. Maybe someone else will overbid vega and get the player.

    Do you really believe this is the case even for a second?

    You keep defending this rule rigorously with arguments like "it's currently allowed so we shouldn't change it" or "it's hard to enforce" but I haven't seen you write a single good argument as to why banking is good for the game and why it should be allowed from a moral standpoint.

    I didnt see a good argument by you why it should be forbidden.
    As long as nobody will be loose or make profit in banking why should it be forbidden?
    Tl is open and everyone can place his bid.

  • #17 2020-04-10 12:11

    tbh I didn't think about that when i did, but yes fair enough, I would deserve sanction too

  • #18 2020-04-10 12:14

    It’s simple fairplay, it’s not that complicated. Banking gives an unfair advantage because you don’t have to be online at deadline or don’t have enough money to buy him atm. Just let your mate buy the player and sell him with 1 day DL at a better time.

  • #19 2020-04-10 12:22

    mrcarlsen wrote:

    It’s simple fairplay, it’s not that complicated. Banking gives an unfair advantage because you don’t have to be online at deadline or don’t have enough money to buy him atm. Just let your mate buy the player and sell him with 1 day DL at a better time.


    you don't even have to be online to make a transfer if you place the highest bid before going offline. to make 2 transfers in a row work one always has to have enough cash in each transfer.

    Last edited by Raid on at 2020-04-10 12:36
  • #20 2020-04-10 12:25

    In my fair opinion, if it doesn't feel right just don't do it. It's not forbidden, true but why would users take advantage of something that clearly is against the ethics?

    Raid on : Stop trying to throw sand to people faces. You need to get to know the world my friend, that beautiful world with pink bubbles, doesn't exist.

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