Rollbacked transfers

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  • #1 2021-08-21 15:24

    This reminds me of Elon Musk and influencing/- the bitcoin price. Many people are sued for insider trading when they do this. With him, they seem to make an exception . The rich get richer the poor....I like the words " who suddenly gets active again". The question is why? Why is the "final push" so high when he can get for the same money much better player.

  • #2 2021-08-21 15:38

    Wrath wrote:

    Just so you know and to provide some transparency
    We have discussed the transfer within the admin team.

    We ALL (this includes the new guys as well) said that there is NO reason to roll the transfer back.
    Josse clearly took advantage by offering his player overpriced to an inactive millionaire who suddenly gets active again to spend his money for a final push. While there has indeed been some more shady transfers imo, this one isn't. It's much rather using a situation to ones own good.

    Just like offering free tactics to newcomers as exchange of joining 500csm FL... Yep, it's just one shady action before another one... But it's all good anyway...

    I don't care that much, but I think GA should prevent newcomers to being scammed, cuz probably they'll be good with it, but it's fucking up their economy and finally they won't stay that much ingame...

    Anyway I won't waste my time, since this behaviour has been seen multiple times and it had 0 response...

  • #3 2021-08-21 16:27

    the game is dyeing and you're still trolling with its members

    Last edited by Johnyz0r at 2021-08-21 16:27
  • #4 2021-08-21 17:00

    Members activity on the TL is governed by the following Rules:

    Quote:

    §4 The transfer list

    §4.1. When bidding, never bid (much) more than the market price for a player. Unserious bids are regarded as cheating.

    §4.2. You are not allowed to deliberately transfer money from one clan to another. This may be by trading a player at a higher value or trading many players with lower values.

    §4.4. If you see someone making an unrealistically high bid on one of your players, you should report it immediately. This is for your own benefit as, otherwise, you may be viewed as participating in a money transfer attempt.

    In the case at hand with Josse’s player, everyone should be able to agree on the following “facts”:

    (I) The player in question are being transferred / sold at 600k, which equals to ~55k (600k / 11 seasons) if you calculate by seasonal costs.

    “Normal” players of same or similar standard are being sold for 40k ish seasonal or less.

    To provide even more guidance on the price range on this specific player, the player was sold for 1,5 seasons ago for 487k. That equals ~39k seasonal costs.

    The player hasn’t gained any or additional training, icons, experience etc. that should affect his price in any positive way.

    Adopting the latest market evaluation of the player, the player’s price should be ~429k (39k x 11 seasons) in today’s market.

    (II) Afaik, Seller contacted buyer in order to “advertise” his player and make the buyer bid on his (overpriced) player.

    (III) The buyer is an inactive user, who hasn’t and - by all experience - will not play the game actively any time soon. The buyer is only “activated” to buy good players at obscure prices.

    (IV) Seller has a track record of 20++ players being sold at overprice and to inactive users, that are only “activated” when needed to bid / buy seller’s players.

    In light of the above, any admin care to explain how these sort of transfers are (i) on market terms and within market price and (ii) being allowed ?

  • #5 2021-08-21 17:20

    Wrath wrote:

    Just so you know and to provide some transparency
    We have discussed the transfer within the admin team.

    We ALL (this includes the new guys as well) said that there is NO reason to roll the transfer back.
    Josse clearly took advantage by offering his player overpriced to an inactive millionaire who suddenly gets active again to spend his money for a final push. While there has indeed been some more shady transfers imo, this one isn't. It's much rather using a situation to ones own good.

    Now ones? I didn't get the memo.

    If all agreed, including the new ones, it means your picks were wrong. The pattern remains and it's normal because admins are being elected by the current circle.

    Having to justify this one thing shows how bad things really are; nothing has changed. It was one admin cheating at the level of his powers for a few years -> 'we will not allow this to happen again' = admins will continue cheating but with limited powers.

    Admins should take care strictly of the forum rules and game rules that can be judged based on evidence. If we cannot have a vote on the userbase regarding transfers, people can be elected by the user base to judge on transfers. That's how you have representatives to take care of the financial aspect. And you do votes every 6 months. Admins are picked by other admins - > abuse of power. Even if they take the most fair decision in the history of decisions, it's still cheating: they did it because it was in their best interest. Having them involved in game while judging matters of the game is exactly hu7kwise cheating but with less power. If transfers can't be handled in an objective manner by not involving users that play, transferlist must be replaced with players crafting (csm / skillpoint). I can't accept to go on like this with this type of corruption based on power that some users have. Find a proper way to change things. You have by the end of this season. By then, reverse that transfer.

    This transfer is fine, but an user coming back to this game after so many years should not be allowed to spend more than 50k on transfers on his first season. This rule would be in place/line with the equipment rule for newcomers. Therefore, roll back is mandatory.

    It's insane that absolutely nothing has changed in the way admins are involved in the game after hulkgate. Move along, nothing happened.

    Last edited by TheLegend27 at 2021-08-21 17:27
  • #6 2021-08-21 18:59

    J0nas wrote:

    Members activity on the TL is governed by the following Rules:

    Quote:

    §4 The transfer list

    §4.1. When bidding, never bid (much) more than the market price for a player. Unserious bids are regarded as cheating.

    §4.2. You are not allowed to deliberately transfer money from one clan to another. This may be by trading a player at a higher value or trading many players with lower values.

    §4.4. If you see someone making an unrealistically high bid on one of your players, you should report it immediately. This is for your own benefit as, otherwise, you may be viewed as participating in a money transfer attempt.

    In the case at hand with Josse’s player, everyone should be able to agree on the following “facts”:

    (I) The player in question are being transferred / sold at 600k, which equals to ~55k (600k / 11 seasons) if you calculate by seasonal costs.

    “Normal” players of same or similar standard are being sold for 40k ish seasonal or less.

    To provide even more guidance on the price range on this specific player, the player was sold for 1,5 seasons ago for 487k. That equals ~39k seasonal costs.

    The player hasn’t gained any or additional training, icons, experience etc. that should affect his price in any positive way.

    Adopting the latest market evaluation of the player, the player’s price should be ~429k (39k x 11 seasons) in today’s market.

    (II) Afaik, Seller contacted buyer in order to “advertise” his player and make the buyer bid on his (overpriced) player.

    (III) The buyer is an inactive user, who hasn’t and - by all experience - will not play the game actively any time soon. The buyer is only “activated” to buy good players at obscure prices.

    (IV) Seller has a track record of 20++ players being sold at overprice and to inactive users, that are only “activated” when needed to bid / buy seller’s players.

    In light of the above, any admin care to explain how these sort of transfers are (i) on market terms and within market price and (ii) being allowed ?


    Impressive. Are you studying law or are you a lawyer?

  • #7 2021-08-21 19:15

    Well most people dont know this but when a player joins a team of an experienced manager like josse they gain hidden skills. So ofc its only natural that will boost the players price.

  • #8 2021-08-21 19:24

    This transfer is fine, but I find it amusing to see how many haters josse has.

  • #9 2021-08-21 19:30

    bubu<3 wrote:

    J0nas wrote:

    Members activity on the TL is governed by the following Rules:

    Quote:

    §4 The transfer list

    §4.1. When bidding, never bid (much) more than the market price for a player. Unserious bids are regarded as cheating.

    §4.2. You are not allowed to deliberately transfer money from one clan to another. This may be by trading a player at a higher value or trading many players with lower values.

    §4.4. If you see someone making an unrealistically high bid on one of your players, you should report it immediately. This is for your own benefit as, otherwise, you may be viewed as participating in a money transfer attempt.

    In the case at hand with Josse’s player, everyone should be able to agree on the following “facts”:

    (I) The player in question are being transferred / sold at 600k, which equals to ~55k (600k / 11 seasons) if you calculate by seasonal costs.

    “Normal” players of same or similar standard are being sold for 40k ish seasonal or less.

    To provide even more guidance on the price range on this specific player, the player was sold for 1,5 seasons ago for 487k. That equals ~39k seasonal costs.

    The player hasn’t gained any or additional training, icons, experience etc. that should affect his price in any positive way.

    Adopting the latest market evaluation of the player, the player’s price should be ~429k (39k x 11 seasons) in today’s market.

    (II) Afaik, Seller contacted buyer in order to “advertise” his player and make the buyer bid on his (overpriced) player.

    (III) The buyer is an inactive user, who hasn’t and - by all experience - will not play the game actively any time soon. The buyer is only “activated” to buy good players at obscure prices.

    (IV) Seller has a track record of 20++ players being sold at overprice and to inactive users, that are only “activated” when needed to bid / buy seller’s players.

    In light of the above, any admin care to explain how these sort of transfers are (i) on market terms and within market price and (ii) being allowed ?


    Impressive. Are you studying law or are you a lawyer?

    His a lawyer

  • #10 2021-08-21 20:01

    mathe wrote:

    This transfer is fine

    This transfer (i.e. transferring money from one account to another) is definitely “fine”’if you are josse / the seller.

    Looking at objective criterias, this is as clear a rollback as they come. But hey, I’m just jealous since I haven’t been ensuring myself free csms from inactive accounts due to obscure pricing and dodgy moral / lack of moral and etiquette.

  • #11 2021-08-21 20:08

    Lack of moral & douchey? Sure.
    Against the rules? Not really.

  • #12 2021-08-21 20:11

    mathe wrote:

    Lack of moral & douchey? Sure.
    Against the rules? Sure. Rules clearly state you aren’t permitted to transfer money from one account to another, e.g. by overpaying on a player. In any well respected jurisdiction (perhaps with the exception of Sweden?), if you play an active part facilitating a violation of the rules, you are as guilty as the perpetrator.

    Fixed it for you.

  • #13 2021-08-21 20:12

    Just out of curiosity j0nas, since you're a lawyer.

    A fictional case without tracable evidence and (so far) no witnesses, would that lead to a clear conviction?

    Just wondering..

    Last edited by booban at 2021-08-21 20:13
  • #14 2021-08-21 20:14

    Quote:

    In light of the above, any admin care to explain how these sort of transfers are (i) on market terms and within market price and (ii) being allowed ?

    Sure.

    He checks the TL and sees someone bidding high bids on players.

    He contacts that person and says they should take a look and if interested buy his player as well.

    In other words:

    These aren't accounts that just suddenly come alive and bid on his players only and then disappear.

    All these accounts span over multiple nationalities and countries. How is he supposed to coordinate all of this "cheating" over so many random and completely unrelated people he doesn't even know?

    Ans also, 0/5 activity means nothing. I might even have 0 activity right now for all I know. I haven't even checked lol. Yet I'm here all the time.

    If the bid is extremely unrealistic it will be rolled back.

    If the bid is just perhaps a bit too high it will not.

    Someone contacting TL bidders to advertise their players is not against the rules.

    josse being a "difficult" or a generally disliked person has no bearing over whether he broke the rules or not.

  • #15 2021-08-21 20:16

    And that part he gifts tacs for newcomers joining their FL isn't also against rules?

    Just asking, cuz vali said it is but I see no GA paying attention on it...

  • #16 2021-08-21 20:17

    booban wrote:

    Just out of curiosity j0nas, since you're a lawyer.

    A fictional case without tracable evidence and (so far) no witnesses, would that lead to a clear conviction?

    Just wondering..

    Rollback.

    Based on objective criteria such as market price, this transfers has to be rendered 40-50% above market price.

    Practice is, that such transfers are rollbacked.

  • #17 2021-08-21 20:17

    More 500s needed so prices wouldn't be so high

  • #18 2021-08-21 20:18

    Quote:

    Just like offering free tactics to newcomers as exchange of joining 500csm FL... Yep, it's just one shady action before another one... But it's all good anyway...

    This has nothing to do with the transfer cases, but it's being investigated right now.

  • #19 2021-08-21 20:20

    Quote:

    And that part he gifts tacs for newcomers joining their FL isn't also against rules?

    It honestly probably isn't, simply because - as far as we're aware - this didn't really happen before. So there's no specific rule about it.

    But if this is actually happening then likely it's not in the spirit of the game and it needs to stop.

    This is being debated right now.

  • #20 2021-08-21 20:20

    Apoc wrote:

    Quote:

    Just like offering free tactics to newcomers as exchange of joining 500csm FL... Yep, it's just one shady action before another one... But it's all good anyway...

    This has nothing to do with the transfer cases, but it's being investigated right now.


    Good to know! ✌🏾

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