Rollbacked transfers

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  • #1 2014-08-04 12:43

    No-one gives a fuck anymore

  • #2 2014-08-04 13:10

    Unfortunately a lot of admins are currently on vacation but we are discussing the transfer in question at the moment.

  • #3 2014-08-04 14:38

    zanek so what you are saying is, that if i want to transfer cheat now is the time ?? dont tell me admins wasnt adware of this specific transfer since we talked about it days before the exact transfer happened.
    You guys ruin the game and thats the truth! it just aint good enough.

  • #4 2014-08-04 14:44

    No, not really for a rollback is also possible even after the player changed clans, we did it before.

    I don't know if some admins were aware of it or not because I wasn't here myself, but I can assure you that we try to prohibit any kind of cheating.

  • #5 2014-08-04 15:13

    Well ... So if a bid is reported, it's not even sure it get´s checked upon ? About this specific transfer i know it was reported ...
    But thx for speak up in here, not everyday @ admin open he´s mouth when things get hot

  • #6 2014-08-04 17:54

    Zanek, Are you also talking about the destiny trade then, or is that done and over ?

  • #7 2014-08-04 17:55

    zanek wrote:

    Unfortunately a lot of admins are currently on vacation but we are discussing the transfer in question at the moment.

    hi zanek.

    this was (exactly) what i got told last time, when for example a 14yo unanalysed tryout for >100k was transferred and not rollbacked. and i understand it - noone can force admins to be online and available 24/7.

    the question is, why "they" (csm superadmins or chiefs) dont "hire" admins that have more time. for example, i am online 24/7, and i applied for it multiple times, but got rejected with crude arguments, while others (for example with cheating past ) got picked. not that i care much, i know admin is a shit job, but if there is a problem with the "online time of admin ppl", maybe hire guys that are online most, instead of casual gamers. just my 50 cents on this.

    anyway, misstakes happen, thats why i suggested (and i will suggest it again internally for the dev) that ONCE a player is reported, he wont be transferred, not after 12h, not after 24 and not after 48, until an admin clicks APPROVE (and his name will be logged, so if someone aproves shit without discussing, he is gone)

  • #8 2014-08-04 18:17

    vali wrote:

    zanek wrote:

    Unfortunately a lot of admins are currently on vacation but we are discussing the transfer in question at the moment.

    hi zanek.

    this was (exactly) what i got told last time, when for example a 14yo unanalysed tryout for >100k was transferred and not rollbacked. and i understand it - noone can force admins to be online and available 24/7.

    the question is, why "they" (csm superadmins or chiefs) dont "hire" admins that have more time. for example, i am online 24/7, and i applied for it multiple times, but got rejected with crude arguments, while others (for example with cheating past ) got picked. not that i care much, i know admin is a shit job, but if there is a problem with the "online time of admin ppl", maybe hire guys that are online most, instead of casual gamers. just my 50 cents on this.

    anyway, misstakes happen, thats why i suggested (and i will suggest it again internally for the dev) that ONCE a player is reported, he wont be transferred, not after 12h, not after 24 and not after 48, until an admin clicks APPROVE (and his name will be logged, so if someone aproves shit without discussing, he is gone)

    Vali well said and you are so right.

  • #9 2014-08-04 21:40

    vali wrote:


    anyway, misstakes happen, thats why i suggested (and i will suggest it again internally for the dev) that ONCE a player is reported, he wont be transferred, not after 12h, not after 24 and not after 48, until an admin clicks APPROVE (and his name will be logged, so if someone aproves shit without discussing, he is gone)

    thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

  • #10 2014-08-05 08:35

    I generally agree with you vali and I hope we see some new faces very soon. However, it is difficult to predict how active a newly promoted user may be in three months for instance. Even the most active user may not be around when he's needed since at the end of the day the admins are all working voluntarily. Nevertheless, I believe, that the admin team is usually capable of taking care of all of those cases which need some special attention.

    I don't really see the benefit in your proposal. How do you justify that one user receives his player after 24 hours whereas another user receives his player after 36 hours and consequently misses an important match due to this delay? Your proposal requires an highly active admin team but with such a team the current system works at least as good but without the greater interference.

  • #11 2014-08-05 12:34

    15 people reported that player and no one cares gj

  • #12 2014-08-05 15:06

    Its tough to reach that perfectly balance point between allowing and denying a transfer.
    There will always be cases like this and cases we will rollback, and a lot of people will disagree on both decisions.

    PS: I don't think it was a problem of caring, most probably such transfer was handled by an admin. The admin panel makes it clear the transfer was reported and its value. Any admin looking at transfers between when the transfer was first reported and 24 hours after the deadline would see this. So you see, its not just a 24hr window.

  • #13 2014-08-05 16:37

    jaless wrote:

    guess the admins are protecting each other and doing whatever they wish. Great way of being a roll model ind the game ....

    wait wat!?

    I've lately noticed some activity in this topic but cba to come and read. But lemme see if I understood right: a admin was caught by the community doing a cheat transfer and not only was allowed but it wasnt sanctioned?

    And about having "fresh faces" in the admin team... A couple of years ago i joked about the number of admins that csm has in proportion to its community and i've had that it wouldnt take long for every member with more than 3-4 years to become admin at a given point.

    I guess that wasnt that far away from the truth.

    Last edited by Vizza at 2014-08-05 20:06
  • #14 2014-08-05 19:17

    Is there a specific reason this transfer wasn't rolled back?

  • #15 2014-08-05 21:50

    I personally think that there was no obvious reason to roll it back.
    We are not allowed to judge about the current market prizes. And 500k is much, yes, but not far too much, to see it as troll bid.
    As admin: We are currently discussing about this case in our forums plus some new ways to keep an eye on the transfers, f.e. vali's suggestion.

  • #16 2014-08-05 23:00

    Thanks for replying sensibly.

    Couple of things:

    If you're not able to base your judgements on current market prices, how do you decide what is unreasonable or not? Surely they should be the 'yard-stick' for all potential rollbacks?

    500k was an extremely high bid for that player, as should have been clearly evidenced by the reports from users. In addition, do reports from other users factor into a decision at all? I imagine they are often from members that are very familiar with current market prices making them extremely valuable when used properly.

    The jump from SB to 500k was also extremely high, which made the transfer even more unusual. Is this alone not grounds to investigate?

    Are you still able to take retrospective action in this case should you decide it should have been rolled back after all?

    How many instances would you say per season, does a reported transfer go through without being checked by a member of the admin team?

  • #17 2014-08-05 23:14

    Wow...many questions and it's quite late, so sorry if I start talking crap.

    Of course we are managers ourselves and we have to know about the market prices, but we are not allowed to determine, if you want so. Yes, they are a kind of yardstick.

    Let me try one thing: We try to keep the transfer market as a free market like in economy (or maybe football transfer market?). If f.e. Bayern wants a player like "Götze" they pay 37 million € for him...who else does have so much money and is willing to spend it on a player like Götze? Bayern decided to and and they are free to do so.
    In CSM it's the same, imo. Of course we try to keep an eye on the market that there are no troll bids and no cheating attempts. But that's it. That's my personal understanding of my admin job. Please note that I'm just speaking for myself and not for the entire admin team!

    I didn't look at that transfer in the admin panel, so I cannot say anything about - sorry.

    I don't understand your last 2 questions :s

  • #18 2014-08-06 00:19

    hi dr. pro

    the try to join a fair argumentation is very welcome and i am sure ppl love it to see admin caring about the subject.

    the example with bayern is (sorry to say) crap tho.

    why? in football, we can agree that every team wants to get the best for their money. so if bayern spend 100000m on whoever, its because they want him and the market needs the price. do you think they paid 37m for götze, if they could have him for 25m? no, they had to bid, else götze would have joined another team (or dortmund would not have sold).

    in csm, this situation is TOTALLY different.

    first of all, we have teams that just dont care, they want to leave and hence, they just do shit
    second, we have teams that want to help friends, so they bid overpriced.
    third, we have teams, that just dont KNOW the market of csm. they cant judge the prices of players.

    all those points aint existing in professional football. whoever bids there bids whats needed to get a player (else someone else will get him or he wont be sold). in csm, we have guys that have zero informations about "what the seller expects" and "what others might bid" and even worse, its not real money, thats hurting if you lose it, its just playmoney.

    in other words, the conecpt (not yours, but CSM) to let the market decide the prices is pure shit, because you cant look at csm market as at a market like real football. too many guys abuse it, either because of cheating/not caring, or not knowing. all those situations get someone unfair advantages (one guy sells player A for 100k, other guy sells identical player B for 250k) and this HAS to be regulated, if randomness or shit like on the discussed player occures. i am not talking about bidwars, but stupid overprices like current bid 50k, next bid 300k and so on

    in other words, csm needs way more strict rules and way better knowledge of prices (in general or inside the admin team). this means, if player X expires, "many" users or admins have a realistic feeling what the price should be, and if its FAR over this price (and 500k on a player with shit train, shit xp, thats worth ~350k) IS far over this price, has to lead to a rollback. the idea to let csm market go as it wants to go is bullshit, bcause this is not reality. its a virtual game, and one of the major aspects in this kind of game is fairness. and if admin power is needed to care for this, we have to change rules.

    if you think market should regulate itself, just let go through all kind of deals, no matter which ones.
    right now we face the situation that some deals get rollbacked and others doesnt. and this sucks even worse, because some make profit of this situation and others, who occur the same stupid bidders (or friends/cheating trys) are NOT making profit.

    Last edited by vali at 2014-08-06 00:30
  • #19 2014-08-06 00:37

    Actually its quite easy. Put a cap on bids, so that they cannot exceed 25% of the previous bid/startbid.

    An easy example:

    Player A has startbid 100k, a bid on this player cannot exceed 125k. If the player gets a 125k bid, another player can exceed this by 25%.

    Its a fairly easy solution but I havent given it much thought, so might not be bulletproof. Some additions should probably be added though, like this caption shouldnt be active unless the player SB is over 50k or the current bid has exceeded 50k.

    Edit; Just thinking it through a little, it might help to alter this caption in different brackets, depending on the current bid/SB. If you take 25% of 350k (which is much like the case of that particular player I believe) you will have the possibility to exceed the bid to 437,5k. Its quite much you can overbid, and still in my mind this is a much fair price compared to the 500k. But game devs could still modify this to balance the game - which I think is necessary. Also there is a good reason to eliminate transfer cheating, and this could surely help admins.

    Last edited by topli at 2014-08-06 00:45
  • #20 2014-08-06 00:49

    you could do it way easier as well : only allow the next highest bid.

    the problem is that both solutions (yours and mine) "fuck" guys with low online time. imagine player expires tomorrow 22:00, but manager A wants to bid early, today, 16:00 because he aint there next 48h. so he would most likely just pump in a very high bid.

    we dont have to discuss that this is stupid, and hence, i would love to remove this kind of bidding behaviour, but we cant expect others to be online that much and force them into "limited" bidwars (like - you can only go XX % higher)

    aside, the idea would stop cheating, but would not prevent from overpriced SB like in destinys case

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